Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (00:47)
So this is episode 194, which is part of the Living With and Beyond Cancer series, where we're going to be hearing from our guest, Becky Robbins, talking about her experience of gamma knife treatment for a brain tumor. So, Becky, welcome. We're so pleased to have you. Becky, we'd not met before, but I've followed you for quite a while on Instagram and was absolutely enthralled with you sharing your experience on social media.

Becky Robbins (01:01)
Hi, thanks for having me.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (01:15)
Do want to tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Becky Robbins (01:18)
Yeah, sure. Okay, so I always find this question hard, so I think I'm quite boring really. I like a quiet, peaceful life. But anyway, yeah, so I've got three children, Eva ⁓ Phoebe and Oliver. Oliver's eight months old, so I'll be going back to work for maternity. It's flown by. So I'm a HR manager. I absolutely love my job. I love working with people and kind of supporting their working experience. So I feel like I have a really good kind of...

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (01:23)
Ha

Becky Robbins (01:44)
know work life balance with that like I don't know how anyone could be a full time mum and I take my hat off to anyone that can do it I'm not I can't I like the good work life balance so haven't really got many hobbies if I'm honest but I really really like the outdoors and nothing better than just going for a walk in the countryside breathing in the fresh air with the kids and health wise so I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis at the age of three so I've kind of lived with that pretty

pretty

much forever, had hip replacements 12 years ago, so they're still going strong, they're incredible. And then obviously more recently I was diagnosed with the meningioma, brain tumour in 2019 and recently had treatment. So that's kind of me in a nutshell. I'm really passionate about clean eating and nutrition, I've got loads to learn on the subject, but I'm really interested in how that helps and plays a role in brain health in particular.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (02:35)
Becky, there were so many contradictions in that where you said, I don't really do a lot. And then you said, and I've got three children. I think the fact that you've maybe not got lot of hobbies is because you have three children.

Becky Robbins (02:41)
Ha

They do keep you

busy. They're amazing. Crazy, but amazing.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (02:51)
Yeah amazing. So Becky you kind of mentioned that you were diagnosed with a meningioma. Tell us a little bit about kind of your diagnosis. How did you even come to realize that that's what you had?

Becky Robbins (03:03)
So they've called it an accidental finding.

because I started getting headaches but it was at a time when I went through kind of two significant events really so I went through a divorce which was all the events leading up to that was very traumatic and then also had a really bizarre incident at the dentist where they injected anaesthetic in my face, well in my gum and it sort of, I don't know if it went wrong but it froze my eyes and they had to call the emergency dental people and everything else so there were these these two

things kind of big events really and I think they probably it was that that triggered headaches and the headaches got worse and worse and they ⁓ ended up sort of being cluster headaches so eventually I had them all day every day all night because it would wake me up as well and they just wouldn't go and it was kind of debilitating I mean I'm still working and obviously my mum and everything else but it was really really difficult to cope with and so I went to the doctors a few times and

then they said okay especially after the dental incident actually they said let's have a look at the MRI just because in case there's any sort of nerve damage and things so had the MRI scan and it was pretty much the next day or the day after it was really quick the GP called me and said look I need you to come into the surgery and it's to do with the MRI scan and it was really early in the morning kind of before they even open I think 7.30 and I just said

You know what, I've got plans today, can I come?

later in the week because I just, you know, I don't know, I just went into sort of I don't want to know, mode. And they said, No, I really need you to come in. So we negotiated and I said, Okay, I'll come in later today. So I had my day out and did all the plans I was doing and then went in. And they said, Okay, look, we found I think they use the word mass in your head, we're not sure what it is. But we're referring you to neurology to have a look and you'll see a consultant and they'll probably be more

MRI scans to follow. So obviously that was it was just the most bizarre feeling because you have no idea what it means. You know, I'm not thankfully in this work and not been in this well before. I didn't know anybody that had a brain tumor or a mass as they said in their head. So it was a really surreal experience. And then there was the weight. So this I would say is the hardest part because you kind of think when they find some sort of tumor you'd be rushed into hospital

They'd be doing everything they can straight away but it's not like that. you know there was a long wait, there was probably had four or five MRI scans in the end in total during the several months that passed until I got my diagnosis, the full diagnosis at that point.

And yeah, I think that was the hardest part. Obviously, I had one daughter at that point in time and she was, I think, about three or four. And I just, you know, I'm a really, really positive person. So I'm, and I'm good at going into denial as well.

I'm really positive and I thought it will be okay but obviously there were moments where you think the worst especially when you don't know what it is so I just remember my three year old at the time she's a terrible sleeper she always has been she won't mind me saying that she's nearly ten now but she would be in a like little toddler bed and I'd lie next to her every night it was always the same routine and she'd always say every five minutes, mummy you still there? Yes I'm here, mummy are you still there? Like this would go on and on for like an hour every night

without fail and then one night it just hit me and I just thought to myself when she said mommy are you there and I just thought my gosh what if there's no answer you know and that

that that was really hard and I thought rough just I've just I don't know what I've just got to get that I have to so So yeah, and then I went to see the the consultants so that was as I said about several months kind of afterwards and He said it was a meningioma and that they can Hopefully they might not grow but they can grow and this is sats kind of right next to or on top of my brain stem so it was in a really tricky place. So he said

not we can't operate and it's quite small so we'll just watch and wait and you'll have yearly MRI scans just to check the growth and he literally said to me at that point go home and forget about it so that's I took but I literally took that and thought okay fine that's what I'll do so went away and I really I really have forgotten about it you know just get on with life with two children in between that time and everything else so just got on with things so obviously

forward to this year and it was just such a bizarre situation. had my MRI scan as normal as I do every year and then they wanted to see me, they sort of wanted to see me and I just thought, oh it's probably, I haven't seen him for a couple of years now, probably just routine and he just, I was with my partner and also my baby so he was what, he was little then, four months old or so I think and he just said, I'll just tell it you straight and direct

your tumor is growing we're going to have to do something about it now.

He went through the options which were basically to operate or to try this radiation, the gamma knife, which I'd never heard of before. he said operating would be extremely risky because of where it is. So we really, really want you to have this gamma knife. It's obviously, that was fantastic news to me that, you know, they were going to try something else other than operating. I did say, you know, can we wait a little while?

not do it straight away maybe but he just looked at the baby looked at me and said you need to be here for him so we need to do something and actually I really appreciated that directness because then you know it takes you don't want to ever be in a situation that you have to make any kind of decision really when it comes to something this huge you want it there to be a clear kind of instruction of what you need to do so that suited me fine

and he did say, know, have you got any questions? And me and my partner were just, you know, a bit dumbfounded. We just, a bit speechless. So we just said no and left and then had a bit of a cry. And then thought, okay, right, let's research this gamma knife. Come on, it's going to be okay. And then that was 17th of May this year that happened. And obviously I've already had the treatment. So it's all gone pretty quickly.

Naman Julka-Anderson (09:15)
Thank you for sharing, it's quite a lot that's happened but obviously your positivity of trying to just get on with the next steps really shines through. Were there any healthcare professional moments that you thought, yep, this is definitely, know, like they are definitely looking after me on top of what the consultant did.

Becky Robbins (09:30)
⁓ Definitely on the day of the Gamma Knife, yeah. So I went to Sheffield twice, so first to see the consultant there, and the second time obviously for the day itself and the treatment. So absolutely, I mean they were just so fantastic. The consultant did ask me, okay, how much information would you like? Because I'm quite matter of fact about things, so I wanted every detail of what could happen. So he went through the side effects and said, do you want to still listen to this?

or how much do you want? Everything. So he went and that was really helpful just to be sort led by me, but he was giving all the advice and information that I needed. So that was good.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (10:09)
There's a lot of people out there who may have heard of radiotherapy but may never have heard of radio surgery. Do you mind talking us through what did what actually happened? What was your treatment day like?

Becky Robbins (10:21)
So yeah, of course.

So it was at the Royal Hallamshire Hospital in Sheffield and the day before actually I had to just have a blood test, had any woman of childbearing sort of age that will just test to make sure you're not pregnant. yeah, so the day itself you get there and they pretty much immediately get that electahelmet on you so that all happens really quickly. So I was there with two other women and it's so interesting because you get talking to people obviously and it's amazing

that they each had something completely different to what I had and that there's just so many, a variety of tumours and different things that you just have,

just never heard of which is quite amazing when you start talking to people but yeah they get the helmet on quite quickly and I'm not going to lie that was obviously the worst part of the day for me but it is fine it is fine I think it looks worse than it is and I had maybe four people with me, Robin was there and she was great she's definitely younger than me but she was almost like a mother figure which I really needed in that moment you know because you're

you feel so vulnerable, it's such a bizarre situation that you just need somebody to take your hand and she had to undo my hair because it wasn't quite right for the helmet and she did a plait in my hair and you know just little things like that.

just meant the world to me. But yeah, they get the helmet on. had the local anaesthetic injections. You have sort two on the top and two at the back. This side was playing up. They did say, there's always one pin that's tricky. So they had to do another couple of local anaesthetics in that side. And at the time, I remember thinking, why would anyone have Botox? Why would anyone choose to have injections in their face? But they said it's

definitely worse than that but it was fine so They put the helmet on and what I really appreciated was they told me every little detail of what they were doing so they said it might make this funny sound this might feel heavy you'll see this you'll hear that so that really helped because you just have no idea it's all the unknowns so that that just helped me kind of just breathe and

take it easy. And then yeah, they use what looked like a screwdriver, which I think I said on Instagram, to kind of screw these pins in. So it's just, you just, it's such a bizarre situation. You never expect. It's just so strange. But once the helmet's on, I mean, I did feel once it was on, I did feel a bit overwhelmed and had a bit of a cry, but then got over that. And it's, again, it's quite strange because your vision's a bit different because the helmet sort of gives you tunnel vision.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (12:38)
It is legitimately a screwdriver.

Becky Robbins (12:53)
So feel a little bit disorientated and they put you in a wheelchair just to take you back around to the main ward. And so from that point onwards, there's a lot of waiting then. So you have, I had an MRI scan with the helmet on. So you have that first. And what I did find weird was lying my head back. just didn't, my brain was telling me, you can't lie your head back. There's pins in the back of it. You can't do it. And so it took a good five minutes for them to kind of say,

you

can lie down. So eventually we managed that, had the MRI scan, which obviously I'm very used to. that was, I always just closed my eyes and I don't reopen them again until I come out. They use the contrast fluid for that too. so yeah. And after that you just wait until they get all the, the treatment ready sort of thing. So, and I remember the consultant telling me, you know, some people can be, it's usually sort of one to two hours. Some people could be in for four hours.

they can pause the treatment if you need a pause which is great but my treatment was 46 minutes so that was brilliant and then the treatment itself is absolutely fine like you don't feel a thing it's just like the MRI scan you go you know obviously it looks different to the MRI scan but again I just shut my eyes and didn't reopen them and they played music so I was listening to the radio and which was good because then I was like timing every song is about

three minutes and then I was thinking okay now I think I've got half an hour to go or whatever it was and although at one point I think they turned the music right down and I thought my hearing's gone it's blasted my my hair that's it I'm I can't hear anymore just for a minute I mean I'm not like I can laugh about that now but you know in there I was like that was that was a little bit scary but it was fine so yeah treatment

absolutely absolutely okay no no you don't feel a thing then when you come out you they pretty much again get the helmet off you straight away and that takes seconds putting it on took about half an hour but taking off a minute if that so that that was easy and then you do feel very wobbly and light-headed and it's all a little bit strange afterwards I did feel really sick actually like that I was gonna start vomiting but I was fine

And then yeah, so that was kind of the day and then you get discharged and you can go home. I stayed in Sheffield that same night because I live far away from Sheffield so we stayed over.

Yeah, and then my baby was with me, girls stayed at home. So he, because he's being breastfed and I had to, didn't, couldn't breastfeed him for 24 hours, but that was just because of the contrast fluid. I thought that radiation would mean that I couldn't breastfeed, but you're not radioactive in this, you? So it's, it was fine after 24 hours, even though I had had actually, so when I found out I had, I was having the treatment, I just immediately assumed I wasn't going to be able to breastfeed for a while. So I started Express

I've got 13 litres of milk in the freezer and I only needed 24 hours. Just honestly, so yeah, so any breastfeeding mums, you're fine. It's only 24 hours.

Naman Julka-Anderson (15:49)
I mean your supply is now through the roof. ⁓

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (15:51)
Ha ha!

You be careful saying that you'll get everyone contacting you going

have you got any spare milk

Naman Julka-Anderson (16:03)
Yeah, all the bodybuilders. Could be a side hustle.

Becky Robbins (16:04)
Yeah.

Naman Julka-Anderson (16:06)
Thank you for sharing. Firstly, it's really great to hear about the therapeutic radiographers looking after you. And that's one of the things I love about the job is we get so much close contact and just talk you through everything. And everyone has different levels of kind of detail you want. It's probably good that you wanted every bit of detail. I really liked what you talked about of how you coped with the treatment itself, because a lot of people who have a mask or even just any kind of other types of treatments, maybe not this one.

They really struggle with their thoughts when they're going through the treatment. That's something that we hear quite a lot that I will, you know, I'm on a bed by myself, I start thinking about what's been going on and stuff. yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think it'd be really useful for other people to consider it.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (16:43)
Becky, was there any information that you didn't receive beforehand that you wish they'd have told you to prepare you?

Becky Robbins (16:50)
To be honest not really I think

Again, nothing really prepares you for the feeling of what it's going to be like to have that helmet on, but actually, no, I think everything was covered. again, the appointment beforehand that I had with the consultant, he was fantastic. We spent probably over an hour with him, you know, going through everything. And he answered every single question that I had, which was a lot at that point. so yeah, I do remember him saying actually that after the treatment, you will be more tired than you think you should be. And that was

I really appreciate that because actually you are it's such a strange tiredness like we're all tired just you know at times if you're busy at work and you've got kids whatever you know what tiredness is and usually you know I've obviously got arthritis as well but usually I can really push through anything I'm quite a busy person quite energetic and I can push through tiredness quite well but this no I just I just couldn't it was almost like my brain was like no I can't I cannot push on.

So yeah, I'd always say just listen to your body as well and just if you need rest you need rest and that's that and I'm very lucky I had lots and lots of support around me with to help with the children so I could take the time really to rest and recover well which was amazing but yeah that was good advice from him because otherwise I think I would have thought why am I feeling like this I should be you know it's not like an operation as such so I should be fine straight afterwards but you're not necessarily.

Naman Julka-Anderson (18:24)
You talked about your support network, Becky. How did you find telling them about what was going on through all the different stages and then coming for treatment?

Becky Robbins (18:32)
⁓

So my children I didn't say anything to other than my eldest because she's nearly 10 I did say I've always told her that I have a little flower in my head which it's fine but if it starts growing you know it make mum's head hurt so I sort of repeated that to her and I said I'm going to the hospital and they're going to fix it and they're going to stop this flower growing so that's all she knew and she was she was okay cool so which was great and it was obviously it's hard telling my mum

and dad so that was difficult and my mum is from a medical background she was a midwife so she's got you know lots of other questions and she was there when we met the consultant to ask her you know questions as well so she's seen a lot in her profession she was a nurse before being a midwife so and in her training so she was probably

the most fearful out of everybody. My dad is Mr Positive so he was like, it's fine, everything's gonna be fine, he's quite like me so I was also, very matter of fact and it's gonna be okay, it has to be, so therefore it will be. And then I've got very supportive partner Luke, so he's dad to my other two children and yeah, so it was, you know, I think again, we just have, we had to be positive together as our family unit to say it's going to be okay.

because it has to be and that was that.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (19:59)
So what happens now Becky, do you get regular follow up? Do you have regular scans again?

Becky Robbins (20:04)
So yeah, so I will be having regular scans again, so just yearly scans. So the next one I think is in March. So that's also quite strange because usually when you have some sort of procedure operation, whatever, you know, I've had three C-sections, hip replacements, countless steroid injections, you can see and feel the healing process usually, but this, you just have no clue what's going on inside your head. And they did talk about, you know,

it could swell up, could stay swollen, it could go up and down in the swelling and that kind of thing. So I'm not clear of side effects until around six months because they can come gradual. So I'm just counting my blessings every day that right now is fine.

and then I think it will be quite a while before they know if it's been successful. So there's kind of an 80 % success rate, which is really high, so that's amazing. But it will obviously take time because it's an endoma, a slow growing tumor. So yeah, I'll have sort of yearly MRI scans again, and I guess then I will hear from them at that point.

Naman Julka-Anderson (21:14)
You talked about being quite positive and thinking about your body. Have you made many changes since getting the diagnosis?

Becky Robbins (21:21)
That's a question because yes, I'm trying to you know, really think about clean eating and avoiding preservatives and additives and I mean, there's a lot in the media at the moment about all that sort of thing Going organic when I can so yeah, so I have made a lot of changes. I mean I self-confess massive chocoholic beforehand and I did interesting I did actually say to the consultant so that's 80 % chance that

this will be successful, will stop growing. What's like, is there a, what's the difference between the 20 % and the 80 %? I want to be in the 80 % club. So what, what is it? What can I do? Is there any, you know, is it more females or males? Is it smokers, nonsmokers? What is it? But he just said it's really random. you know, it.

there's no way of knowing. But then I thought, obviously they ask you some questions before you go into...

the whole process and you know they say, you a smoker? Do you drink? What's your occupation? All the usual kind of questions. What medication are you already on? But I kind of thought how interesting would it be if you had, if you collected a lot more data about people's lifestyles and what they're eating and drinking and what they're consuming, what they're, you know, do they live in a polluted area and all of these things because maybe there could be some kind of pattern when you look at that. So I just thought

you know, how could maybe it's not possible but maybe it is, you know, if they could collect very, very, very detailed and specific questions and look for patterns but I just want to do all I can to now give myself...

the best success rates possible and maybe it's out of my control and out of my hands but I need to do something so this is one thing I can control and one thing I can do and I enjoy cooking and thinking about healthy lifestyle and everything else and obviously as we all do we want to provide a healthy lifestyle for our kids too so yeah I think that's kind of where I'm at so it's really looking at nutrition and that sort of thing and I've got lots to learn I'm no expert on it at all so I'm just trying to learn as

go really.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (23:33)
Becky, I'm really intrigued. Now that you've kind of had this procedure,

and for some people who have maybe a type of brain tumour or metastatic disease, what potentially would you say to people who are going through that but in your HR role? Because actually we have a lot, well we just have a lot of people who are in the corporate world, working, going through cancer, going through health conditions and sometimes there is quite a lot of conflict between

Becky Robbins (23:51)
Thank

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (24:04)
get them back into work and actually we need to make adaptations. Is there anything that you think you might take from this into your job?

Becky Robbins (24:12)
Possibly yeah, because I think obviously more understanding of what this is all about, but I think also just giving them the advice, just take one step at a time because you know, just treat every day as just take baby steps if you need to, almost you don't want work really to...

cause more stress for that individual because it's already a very stressful and terrifying situation. You don't want work to add to that so I would, think, in my role try and do all I can to eliminate that side of things. Obviously tell them everything they need to know in terms of...

sick pay and what happens with all that kind of payroll side of things of course but actually just to say you know we're here come every day if you want to but just take take small steps every day and let's see where we are you know and just not think too far ahead really.

That's how I, I like to live in the present moment anyway myself, so I try and do that as much as possible. I think it gets easier with age. I was never good at it as a, in my twenties, but now much more so. Just sort of appreciating every moment really.

Naman Julka-Anderson (25:18)
I'm going to be a bit boring and go down that HR route again. Are there different rights and things people should consider for a long-term disability? Almost like with your rheumatoid arthritis, that kind of stuff compared to a cancer diagnosis. I know you haven't had cancer, but just for people who say they maybe understand it. Because obviously some people have other comorbidities or long-term conditions and then be diagnosed with cancer or their cancer and their cancer treatment causes long-term.

Becky Robbins (25:21)
Yeah.

Naman Julka-Anderson (25:43)
like late effects or comorbidities, they're stuff that people should look out for or think about.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (28:32)
How harsh of us to ask you about work whilst on maternity leave. That's just...

Becky Robbins (28:35)
My head is still mush.

Naman Julka-Anderson (28:39)
I thought it was brilliant, was well, yeah came out really nicely.

Becky Robbins (28:40)
I'm

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (28:51)
Becky, for anyone listening who's maybe preparing for stereotactic radio surgery and has maybe googled it and thought, my gosh, that looks really scary, especially because the helmet is obviously screwed into the skull. What advice and support would you offer them?

Becky Robbins (29:06)
it's definitely not as bad as it looks.

and the helmet part is over in 30 minutes and once you've got it on everything's numb so you you can't feel it then it's fine it feels a bit heavy but other than that it's absolutely okay. I would say if you can bring somebody with you it is nice too so you know I did have my mum and my partner there with me they can't go into the treatment room or when you're having the helmet fitted but they were around and that was really nice for me and you know the team also looked after them so which was so

you know they were bringing us teas all the time and biscuits so that was just a really nice touch but I would just say that it's...

you know, to have an operation I would be terrifying. I've spoke to somebody, you know, that's had had an operation for brain tumour and it does sound quite distressing. So it's, you know, that's that's different altogether. But this as far as the radio surgeries concerned, it's really not as bad as it looks. And fingers crossed, you come out like this, like, like nothing's happened. Fingers crossed.

Naman Julka-Anderson (30:08)
I suppose one thing to ask about the helmet is, has it left any scars?

Becky Robbins (30:13)
No, nothing.

So you can't wash your hair actually for three days afterwards. I left it maybe five days because I was scared. But yeah, obviously on my Instagram you'll see that I kind of had two little sort of marks afterwards for a few days. But then no, it's completely disappeared. So it's absolutely fine.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (30:31)
Becky, how does it feel having to go somewhere for this type of treatment? Because Naman and I do quite a lot of work with Radiotherapy UK that petition government to invest more in radiation treatments. And obviously, you know, external beam radiotherapy isn't available everywhere in the country. There's still quite long travel times. But actually, when we look at stereotactic radio surgery, there's even fewer machines in the NHS, and people do have to travel

really long distances. What do you as a patient kind of think about the accessibility of this as a treatment?

Becky Robbins (31:08)
think for me personally, I'm very fortunate that I can get anywhere and it's easy for me to do so.

So for me, when I got when I was told that it would be in Sheffield, and, you know, the consultant said to me, this is one of the very best places in the country. So for me, it didn't matter where I was going, go anywhere, because just hearing that this is one of the leaders in what they're doing, I'm absolutely fine to go anywhere for it. So obviously, for people less fortunate, they can't necessarily travel too far, and can't don't have the opportunity to stay over because again, I was fortunate enough to be able to do that.

then yes, maybe it would be helpful potentially for a lesser commute, but for me it was okay.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (31:54)
And we're coming to the end of the episode, although we could probably talk to you all night about your experiences and ask you more HR questions. But we always end Rad Chat podcast episodes with top tips. What top tips would you give for, I don't know, healthcare professionals listening or patients listening or anyone who just the general public who have thought, I've never heard of a meningioma, I've never heard of radio surgery.

What top tips would you give or something that you want to leave the podcast with listeners thinking about?

Becky Robbins (32:23)
I think in terms of the healthcare professionals, as I've said, what was really helpful on the day was just talking through every tiny little detail to me so that nothing was a sudden surprise and sudden shock. So that was really helpful. So I'd say absolutely continue to do that always. And what else?

I think for patients again just do a bit of research beforehand. I know you shouldn't always go to Dr. Google and that's maybe not a good idea but just to watch videos of somebody in the helmet that's why I did the video just because there wasn't many videos of people in the helmet or ones that weren't looking really grim anyway so I thought okay let's kind of try and lighten the mood a bit because it really wasn't that bad. So I think yeah just take a step at a time do a little bit of

research, ask all the questions you need to to the consultant and if you go home and forget questions, ring them, know, ask more if you need to just get all the information that you you feel you need.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (34:07)
⁓ Amazing top tips and especially the HR ones. Becky didn't realise she was coming on the podcast and we were going to ask her questions about human resources but thank you so much for doing it. I'm sure that people listening will be very grateful. So a huge thank you again to our guest Becky Robbins for talking about her experience of gamma knife treatment for brain tumour. Thank you all for listening to Rad Chat. My name's Jo McNamara and I'm joined by fellow host Naman Julka-Anderson Our next guest to feature will be Sonia Kumar as part of our leadership

Becky Robbins (34:10)
Okay.

Never mind.

Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (34:36)
series talking about her role as a member of parliament for Dudley. So thank you all for listening and good night.